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	<title>Comments on: Are you an under-paid IT worker?</title>
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	<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker</link>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker/comment-page-1#comment-135508</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker#comment-135508</guid>
		<description>It all goes back to college.  The simple fact is that engineering and computer science degrees are the hardest undergraduate degrees to obtain.  After working your butt off to obtain the degree, you come out into industry only to find out that you aren&#039;t going to be paid much better than a school teacher.  On top of it, your job is going to be a lot more difficult and more stressful than just about any other job around.  And then you see others that screwed off in college with basket weaving degrees that are making more money. It&#039;s almost like going to school to become a brain surgeon, but you get the same pay as a secretary.  Why do the work when it comes to software and hardware engineering?  Might as well do something easier where you can go to work and just perform a &quot;task&quot; every day that doesn&#039;t require any thinking and get paid the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all goes back to college.  The simple fact is that engineering and computer science degrees are the hardest undergraduate degrees to obtain.  After working your butt off to obtain the degree, you come out into industry only to find out that you aren&#8217;t going to be paid much better than a school teacher.  On top of it, your job is going to be a lot more difficult and more stressful than just about any other job around.  And then you see others that screwed off in college with basket weaving degrees that are making more money. It&#8217;s almost like going to school to become a brain surgeon, but you get the same pay as a secretary.  Why do the work when it comes to software and hardware engineering?  Might as well do something easier where you can go to work and just perform a &#8220;task&#8221; every day that doesn&#8217;t require any thinking and get paid the same.</p>
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		<title>By: byte</title>
		<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker/comment-page-1#comment-92340</link>
		<dc:creator>byte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker#comment-92340</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, in this modern globalised world, Australasia should think about some sort of European Union like thing.

Local talent pools are important, but they&#039;ve also got to &quot;compete&quot; with the rest of the world. This applies to all countries, even developing ones (in where say First World local talent pools tend to go over and do &quot;information exchange&quot;) - which is why FOSS is so important.

The cost of living is high, but here comes the clincher of all of this: if we in Australia can hire foreign talent for cheaper, and yet they survive with these &quot;perceived lower wages&quot;, then why should it be a problem with the local talent pool?

I&#039;m paranoid about business people&#039;s motives, but I&#039;m also game for a free market. I hate &quot;protectionist&quot; schemes. Everyone should be able to compete in a nice free market...

Only then, will the bar for skills be raised.

Remember: if you want to be a gardener, be the best at it. That way, no matter what, you&#039;ll always be in demand. Thats how the local talent pool should think and want to get things done. 

Worrying about competition is just silly. In the very near future, borders will become oblivious, and if you&#039;ve not got the skill to offer, thats going to be just too bad. 

This is why America&#039;s been doing wonders in the IT sector - their H1B visas probably had a role to play in that. Now they&#039;re tempting Aussies to head over, to further drain our local talent pool, with the E1 visas. Australia needs to think out of the box and do something similar if we want to reduce our over $20 billion ICT deficit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, in this modern globalised world, Australasia should think about some sort of European Union like thing.</p>
<p>Local talent pools are important, but they&#8217;ve also got to &#8220;compete&#8221; with the rest of the world. This applies to all countries, even developing ones (in where say First World local talent pools tend to go over and do &#8220;information exchange&#8221;) &#8211; which is why FOSS is so important.</p>
<p>The cost of living is high, but here comes the clincher of all of this: if we in Australia can hire foreign talent for cheaper, and yet they survive with these &#8220;perceived lower wages&#8221;, then why should it be a problem with the local talent pool?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m paranoid about business people&#8217;s motives, but I&#8217;m also game for a free market. I hate &#8220;protectionist&#8221; schemes. Everyone should be able to compete in a nice free market&#8230;</p>
<p>Only then, will the bar for skills be raised.</p>
<p>Remember: if you want to be a gardener, be the best at it. That way, no matter what, you&#8217;ll always be in demand. Thats how the local talent pool should think and want to get things done. </p>
<p>Worrying about competition is just silly. In the very near future, borders will become oblivious, and if you&#8217;ve not got the skill to offer, thats going to be just too bad. </p>
<p>This is why America&#8217;s been doing wonders in the IT sector &#8211; their H1B visas probably had a role to play in that. Now they&#8217;re tempting Aussies to head over, to further drain our local talent pool, with the E1 visas. Australia needs to think out of the box and do something similar if we want to reduce our over $20 billion ICT deficit.</p>
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		<title>By: James Purser</title>
		<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker/comment-page-1#comment-92327</link>
		<dc:creator>James Purser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker#comment-92327</guid>
		<description>I understand the process in becoming a Skilled Migrant is not an easy one, and nor should it be.

I also understand that skilled migrants have their place in the Australian ICT sector, and have made real contributions.

However where my concerns lie in how this can impact on local industry and the continuing development and growth of the local talent pool. There is a danger that the industry might become &quot;addicted&quot; so to speak to imported workers. What this could mean is that instead of growing the local pool, they instead immediately look over seas pointing of course to the small pool of talent at home as a reason for doing so.

I guess this is part of the problem of merging a global economy with national systems. In Australia our cost of living is quite high compared to many places. If wages go down, less people become interested in the sector and so on.

I guess I&#039;m just paranoid about business group motives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the process in becoming a Skilled Migrant is not an easy one, and nor should it be.</p>
<p>I also understand that skilled migrants have their place in the Australian ICT sector, and have made real contributions.</p>
<p>However where my concerns lie in how this can impact on local industry and the continuing development and growth of the local talent pool. There is a danger that the industry might become &#8220;addicted&#8221; so to speak to imported workers. What this could mean is that instead of growing the local pool, they instead immediately look over seas pointing of course to the small pool of talent at home as a reason for doing so.</p>
<p>I guess this is part of the problem of merging a global economy with national systems. In Australia our cost of living is quite high compared to many places. If wages go down, less people become interested in the sector and so on.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m just paranoid about business group motives.</p>
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		<title>By: byte</title>
		<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker/comment-page-1#comment-92322</link>
		<dc:creator>byte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 06:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker#comment-92322</guid>
		<description>So, what you&#039;re saying is that people have an over-inflated sense of what they&#039;re worth then. Because there are two sides to the coin: is the employer paying too little (as in a junior tester, might get $5,000 more per annum at a higher stress job, than just bagging groceries at the local supermarket) or is it such that junior testers expect to be paid a lot more?

Now, importing workers from overseas might be seen as &quot;outsourcing&quot;, but if they work cheaper/better/faster, is it not a win-win situation? Keeps our IT deficit lower, anyways.

Getting talent and paying what talent is worth is important. But maybe talent has an over-inflated sense of worth. And we need &quot;imports&quot; to place a balance in the system.

FWIW, &quot;importing&quot; someone isn&#039;t a straight thru process. The employer has to prove that such a job cannot be done sufficiently by locals (in Australia). So its probably more than just costs involved, imho.

And is it not fair, to pay a programmer between $45,000 (with say no experience!) to $65,000 (with more than 2 years work experience)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what you&#8217;re saying is that people have an over-inflated sense of what they&#8217;re worth then. Because there are two sides to the coin: is the employer paying too little (as in a junior tester, might get $5,000 more per annum at a higher stress job, than just bagging groceries at the local supermarket) or is it such that junior testers expect to be paid a lot more?</p>
<p>Now, importing workers from overseas might be seen as &#8220;outsourcing&#8221;, but if they work cheaper/better/faster, is it not a win-win situation? Keeps our IT deficit lower, anyways.</p>
<p>Getting talent and paying what talent is worth is important. But maybe talent has an over-inflated sense of worth. And we need &#8220;imports&#8221; to place a balance in the system.</p>
<p>FWIW, &#8220;importing&#8221; someone isn&#8217;t a straight thru process. The employer has to prove that such a job cannot be done sufficiently by locals (in Australia). So its probably more than just costs involved, imho.</p>
<p>And is it not fair, to pay a programmer between $45,000 (with say no experience!) to $65,000 (with more than 2 years work experience)?</p>
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		<title>By: James Purser</title>
		<link>http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker/comment-page-1#comment-92317</link>
		<dc:creator>James Purser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 05:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2006/11/22/are-you-an-under-paid-it-worker#comment-92317</guid>
		<description>Part of the &quot;Skills Shortage&quot; problem as I see it, is not that there is a shortage of skills (although I don&#039;t doubt that in certain areas there is), but more of a shortage of skilled people willing to take what they see as low wages for th job involved. That this skills shortage is being used as a weapon in the drive for importing labour rather than building our local pool is another thing that worries me.

I guess it can be viewed as another &quot;outsourcing&quot;. Instead of sending work over seas, we are importing the workers.

Until people realise that in order to get the talent they are going to have to pay for it, I don&#039;t see a major change happening in the policy formation arena</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the &#8220;Skills Shortage&#8221; problem as I see it, is not that there is a shortage of skills (although I don&#8217;t doubt that in certain areas there is), but more of a shortage of skilled people willing to take what they see as low wages for th job involved. That this skills shortage is being used as a weapon in the drive for importing labour rather than building our local pool is another thing that worries me.</p>
<p>I guess it can be viewed as another &#8220;outsourcing&#8221;. Instead of sending work over seas, we are importing the workers.</p>
<p>Until people realise that in order to get the talent they are going to have to pay for it, I don&#8217;t see a major change happening in the policy formation arena</p>
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